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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 20:40:19 GMT
I'm watching Mona Lisa on TalkingPictures TV. Haven't seen it for years. Bob Hoskins best film? Maybe, though Who Framed Roger Rabbit? might give it a run for it's money.... Or maybe The Long Good Friday?
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 20:42:03 GMT
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Post by Sheep2 on Aug 29, 2022 20:47:56 GMT
Isn’t the price-capping system just a temporary stalling of energy price rises that would have come in anyway down to the privatised nature of energy in the UK?…. I mean it’s not the price capping that’s been the problem. That’s just an inadequate solution to a privatised energy sector and a massive lack in investment in renewable energy. No. The problem is the system is set so every KWH is charged at the top price related to the price of gas. The UK imports (net) about 4% of electricity used and 10% of gas used. These are generally bought on the market and are subject to currency an market fluctuations. The rest of the electricity and gas is domestically produced. Costs of production are up something like 10-15% in non-renewable. In renewables ( essentially solar and wind) the costs of production of each KWH is falling. However the producers can sell at the market price of gas. This has risen by about 6* this year. There was a production shortage pre February so the price was up. Since February the price of gas has spiked partly due to the Russians reducing deliveries, but also due to Germany in particular attempting to stockpile gas. If UK producers operated under long term contracts providing them with set, but decent margins the prices would be up maybe 20-30%. Maybe much less if the imported energy was under contracts. The point is only 4% of the energy market for gas is properly affected by price rises. It is just that everything is priced in terms of that 4%. It is a pretty crazy situation where BP , Centrca, Shell, Scottish power and the solar producers are making record profits, but users both business and private face ruin in many cases. If the cost of producing energy were genuinely rising there is a reasonable argument for consumers to pay. I don't think there is a reasonable argument for £6,000 a year heating bills at the moment*. My thoughts are that the government should cap the prices domestic producers can charge. If you capped the average bill at £1,800 which is 50% up on January 2022 the producers would still be very profitable. Not capping the bills but paying for them from tax cuts or a windfall tax is very inefficient. The total cost of subsidy could top £100 billion. If you limit the domestic prices the cost would be sag £5 billion for imported gas and £5billion to support poorer consumers. At the moment the current chancellor warned that people earning £45,000 would struggle to pay their bill this winter. That's crazy. About 75-80% of people would be struggling to some degree. So basically 90% of the problem is caused by not having set contracts for energy producers. * I think there are some green arguments in favour of much higher bills, but these rises won't be going to reduce environmental damage. TL; DR? The Tories have fucked us.
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Post by Sheep2 on Aug 29, 2022 21:01:03 GMT
Short term contracts is what did for the energy resellers last year.
Many of them entered medium term supply agreements with consumers, but bought on the spot market and only partially hedged the risk. When prices rose anyone who hadn't hedged and wasn't a producer as well went bust.
You have to remember this is a highly regulated market supplying essential services which pretty much failed over night. That is pretty bad.
The worst thing is this was easily foreseeable and preventable. It happened (with differences) to Enron in the late 1990s. They got caught out and set up a fraud to hide it. It is what happened to Northern Rock in 2007. They were borrowing short term to lend long term. When the credit market dried up they went bust. It is what happened to RBS and Lloyds TSB-HBOS in 2008. RBS went so but that 14 years later their tax payer still owns 48% of it.
So I would have expected the regulatory system for essential services not to allow companies to enter very large long term contracts that aren't hedged. It's basic risk management.
<shrugs>
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 21:01:58 GMT
Isn’t the price-capping system just a temporary stalling of energy price rises that would have come in anyway down to the privatised nature of energy in the UK?…. I mean it’s not the price capping that’s been the problem. That’s just an inadequate solution to a privatised energy sector and a massive lack in investment in renewable energy. TL; DR? The Tories have fucked us. Again.
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 21:17:34 GMT
And again.
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 21:17:57 GMT
And again.
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 21:18:22 GMT
Cunts.
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Post by MrTiddles on Aug 29, 2022 21:20:49 GMT
Yeh, wot Sheep said.
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Post by MrTiddles on Aug 29, 2022 21:22:48 GMT
I've got the dentist tomorrow morning, no idea why, it's not like I've got any teeth left.
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Post by amipal on Aug 29, 2022 21:45:32 GMT
I’m at the Notting Hill Carnival. Well, actually I’m lying at home, on the bed. But there’s an almighty hullabaloo outside. I’m wondering if I should fill up a plastic beaker with rum and ginger beer, buy a bucket hat, and go and bogle next to a police officer. I might go and stick my snoot out … Don’t you mean carnival? I can’t be doing with all that noise, all that enthusiastic happiness.
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Post by Sheep2 on Aug 29, 2022 21:49:07 GMT
To be fair risk markets and risk management can be complex. A lot of people have come unstuck believing that they have hedged risks when either they haven't or there was a risk they hadn't understood. If you don't have people who have worked in them setting up a regulated market can be tricky. Even then a new risk can blindside you. Putin invading Ukraine would typically be included in risk pricing. A low probability high impact event is very difficult to deal with.
I understand the basics. Enough to know I don't know enough to examine anything complex with credit markets and hedging and be sure I have understood it.
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Post by Destry on Aug 29, 2022 21:56:38 GMT
tl;dr
We're all fucked.
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Post by crankcaller on Aug 29, 2022 22:11:42 GMT
I was more succinct with my shoot the Tories comment. Sheep2 That's probably the best description of what's happened I've ever read. I'm now even more angry. err, thanks?
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Post by Chumbles on Aug 29, 2022 22:12:26 GMT
They've finally designed a vehicle for Tids...
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Post by MrTiddles on Aug 29, 2022 22:18:49 GMT
I'll take two.
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Post by Chumbles on Aug 29, 2022 22:41:37 GMT
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Post by tenthenemy on Aug 29, 2022 22:55:03 GMT
Morning!
I've lost my Quordle record. This is the result of having to delete cookies in a hurry.
Just made it:
Wordle 436 3/6
🟨⬛⬛⬛🟨 ⬛🟨🟩🟨⬛ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Daily Quordle 217 5️⃣7️⃣ 3️⃣4️⃣ quordle.com ⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜ ⬜⬜🟨⬜🟩 ⬜🟩⬜⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩 🟩⬜🟨⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 ⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ ⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩 ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜ ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩 🟩🟩⬜⬜🟩 🟨🟨⬜🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟨🟨⬜⬜⬜ ⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
For a fresh start this is pretty good.
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Post by Ozymandias Kane on Aug 29, 2022 23:14:15 GMT
They've finally designed a vehicle for Tids... Now I know what it means when someone says 'crash test dummy'!
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