Chatterbox Thursday

You people. This place.

Re: Wenchgate

I've tried (without much success) to find a longer writing sample of Black Country dialect that shows the use of the word "wench" in context. Here's what I did find:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Country

(Under the heading "Dialect and accent":
The local pronunciation includes "goo" (elsewhere "go") or "gewin'" is similar to that elsewhere in the Midlands. It is quite common for broad Black Country speakers to say "'agooin'" where others say "going." A woman is a "wench", a man is a "mon", a nurse is a "nuss" and home is "wom". An apple is an "opple".)

www.sedgleymanor.com/dictionaries/dialect.html

(This records: "Wench" = girl, still commonly used by parents towards daughters. From the Anglo-Saxon "Wencel" meaning child)

www.worcesternews.co.uk/features/fairpoint/11340605.Ow_bin_ya__Was_yowr_day_bostin_/

(A feature on Black Country dialect from the Worcester News. Quote: Being called a “wench” is not offensive. It’s being called “flower” or “love” or “duck”, one of many words for “lady”.)

ypn.poetrysociety.org.uk/features/using-your-own-words/

(A project encouraging young people to write poetry in their local dialect. Scroll down for the poem by one Liz Berry, with the annotation: wenches: affectionate term for girls)

Also available: a number of "Black Country Wench" mugs and t-shirts.

As for the use of the term outside dialect, it is, as whatalark noticed, mainly an archaic term that's used in a jocular fashion. Take this example from the Guardian in 2015:

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/shortcuts/2015/dec/20/dickensian-bbc1-literary-characters-live-forever

"I was forced to abandon The Old Curiosity Shop after a couple of chapters for the autobiography of Jade Goody, and didn’t get back to it for ages. The irony is that Jade Goody could be a character from that book, a good-hearted serving wench, generous with her mutton pies. Hers is the sort of meaningful name Dickens favoured."

(The online etymology dictionary www.etymonline.com/word/wench notes: "In Shakespeare's day a female flax-worker could be a flax-wench, flax-wife, or flax-woman.", showing how these terms were still interchangeable.)

In modern urban slang "wench" has taken on the meaning of "pirate bride", thanks to the popularisation through the Pirates of the Caribbean films. Disney only got rid of the "Wench Auction" feature of its ride of the same name earlier this year. Now, that's what I would call offensive (the feature, not the fact that they are finally getting rid of it, not a moment too soon).

But the real problem is that completely innocent words for women have a tendency to acquire a more sinister and outright sexist meaning, and "wench" is, of course, on the list:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/27/eight-words-sexism-heart-english-language

(Notice the discussion of the word "wench" as a Black Country dialect term in the comments, e.g. DrSmooth6801 "Where I'm from, in Dudley, wench means unmarried woman. Just like using Miss or mademoiselle or Fräulein." or WulfrunianInGermany (responding to someone else): "You beat me to it! It was however brought home to me rather forcefully that calling a girl a 'wench' once you're outside the Black Country (in this case in Yorkshire) was not acceptable..."

For what it's worth tenthenemy- reading back I don't think it was you. She made up her mind to leave after BG called her ignorant.

Clearly she had an issue with other conversions having mentioned the comments about millenials on here too. From my time on here as a lurker, I've always enjoyed the humour which can be abit close to the bone at times. I always assume what people are saying is meant to be funny (except babyfark) but can see how it might be taken differently.

Maybe we just aren't ready for life after FRANK yet.

Super Tennis is a game.

Some Dexter and Gotham, in the latter a major character got shot between the eyes and was later seen in hospital with a bandage around his head and breathing apparatus. Hardly anyone seems to die in Gotham.



I also notice some controversy in yesterday's column. Who would have thought a board game cover would cause so much trouble?

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway....

I don't play games because I'm not a feeble minded child who can't regulate what he types.

Still reeling from the heartbreak of finish Penny Dreadful, we tried to find something we would both like on that telly. We settled on Taboo (because yes we are that far behind on that telly). 45 minutes of Tom Hardy threatening people and going mad? Sold sir.

Then I went to bed early because I'm a feeble minded old man.

Come back Seren.

Morning all,

Went round to a friend's last night; played FIFA, ate five guys and drank all the booze.

Now I'm on way to Birmingham..not the place, just the airport. I am passing through.

I'm abit bored, but have currently chickened out of pulling the switch out my luggage and getting my Zelda on.

Whoa there, that escalated quickly.

I feel bad that Serenvikity decided to delete her account, as I said it's always good to get different and challenging perspectives on things.

I do sometimes worry that my terrible opinions may, unintentionally, offend.

But yesterday I defended indigenous minority language rights, advocated giving Babyfarx some slack considering his child's situation and suggested The Phantom Menace is the worst Star Wars film.

All of which I stand by.

Are you afraid of being judged in public for playing computer games?

>>it’s in the car.

Indeed - but that will turn up the volume full and ring it.

Good morning!

I’ve given up any hope of finishing off Blood and Wine before Christmas as the vintage cube is currently available on Magic Online. For those not in the know, this is a rare chance to play with the most stupid and broken Magic cards ever printed. Sorry Geralt...

Absolutely. So instead I'm reading bill Bryson