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Post by cobblers on Sept 25, 2020 14:13:56 GMT
Dimmu Porgyr
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Post by cobblers on Sept 25, 2020 14:14:52 GMT
Meshuggar
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Post by cobblers on Sept 25, 2020 14:16:39 GMT
Sprat the Gates
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Post by cobblers on Sept 25, 2020 14:19:15 GMT
Eel and Ardor
I’m going to put my phone in another room for a while.
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Post by Chumbles on Sept 25, 2020 14:35:40 GMT
Thinking about it Tolkien was pretty racist too. Lots of dark skinned enemies riding elephants from unspecified southern islands. Fuckwit; the stories are full of different races. It's notable that the reality evil bastards are human beings. Got that right, didn't he... Putin as Sauron, Trump as Saruman with the massed hordes of Easterlings being the massed Chinese Communists (who are easily the most racist regime on the planet - Tibet, Uighur, Mongolian peoples all being re-educated with their own languages being forbidden, so that they can be compliant subject races) |
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Post by Sheep2 on Sept 25, 2020 14:46:07 GMT
Thinking about it Tolkien was pretty racist too. Lots of dark skinned enemies riding elephants from unspecified southern islands. Tolkien was of his time in many ways. However unlike many authors from the 30's or onwards (Grahame, Greene*, Agatha Christie, JG Ballard T S Eliot to name but 4) you won't find racism in his work as such. There is definitely xenophobia from the hobbits especially Gaffer Gamgee, but it's not expressed in racial terms. The treatment of the wild men is a bit suspect and it is possible to read the dwarves as sort of Jewish. It's probably fair to say that all the good guys are white - though so are many of the bad guys. Also when there are darker skinned people they are very definitely exotic and other and none of them are actually characters. To set against that he sent two pretty firm letters to his publisher to be forwarded to German publisher. It's not 100% clear what was sent to Germany but the text of the second reads: Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects.
"But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject—which should be sufficient.
"I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.
"Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung [descent]."
* well you won't find it in Grahame Greene, but that is because Greene rewrote all his prewar books to excise all antisemitic comments |
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Post by lazybones on Sept 25, 2020 14:48:28 GMT
Morgoth was the most evil character in Middle Earth. The Black Foe of the World.
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Post by BabyfarkmcGeezak on Sept 25, 2020 14:50:57 GMT
And what about Julia Donaldson? The biggest racist of them all? In Jack and the Flumflum Tree we have Stubble Cheeked Stu who falls in the water, but he cannot swim...  |
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Post by Shenguin on Sept 25, 2020 14:51:01 GMT
Thinking about it Tolkien was pretty racist too. Lots of dark skinned enemies riding elephants from unspecified southern islands. Yeah, it's pretty obvious when you think about it. The swarthy Easterlings who fought alongside the orcs, and were enemies of the Free Peoples. The books use the imagery and play on the concerns of their time. *cough* Ray Against the Machine |
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Post by lazybones on Sept 25, 2020 14:51:13 GMT
Thinking about it Tolkien was pretty racist too. Lots of dark skinned enemies riding elephants from unspecified southern islands. Tolkien was of his time in many ways. However unlike many authors from the 30's or onwards (Grahame, Greene*, Agatha Christie, JG Ballard T S Eliot to name but 4) you won't find racism in his work as such. There is definitely xenophobia from the hobbits especially Gaffer Gamgee, but it's not expressed in racial terms. The treatment of the wild men is a bit suspect and it is possible to read the dwarves as sort of Jewish. It's probably fair to say that all the good guys are white - though so are many of the bad guys. Also when there are darker skinned people they are very definitely exotic and other and none of them are actually characters. To set against that he sent two pretty firm letters to his publisher to be forwarded to German publisher. It's not 100% clear what was sent to Germany but the text of the second reads: Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects.
"But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject—which should be sufficient.
"I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.
"Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung [descent]."
* well you won't find it in Grahame Greene, but that is because Greene rewrote all his prewar books to excise all antisemitic comments There wasn't much racism in J.G Ballard's novels from what I remember. Maybe a bit of racial stereotyping in The Drowned World.
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Post by Sheep2 on Sept 25, 2020 14:52:05 GMT
Thinking about it Tolkien was pretty racist too. Lots of dark skinned enemies riding elephants from unspecified southern islands. Fuckwit; the stories are full of different races. It's notable that the reality evil bastards are human beings. Got that right, didn't he... Putin as Sauron, Trump as Saruman with the massed hordes of Easterlings being the massed Chinese Communists (who are easily the most racist regime on the planet - Tibet, Uighur, Mongolian peoples all being re-educated with their own languages being forbidden, so that they can be compliant subject races) Tolkien strongly resisted reading his books as an allegory for the modern world. Also weren't Welsh, and both Irish and Scottish Gaelic educationally supressed by the British government? As were the various languages and dialects of France, Italy Spain and Germany by their governments. I know 'we' have stopped it now, but it isn't that long ago. |
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Post by Sheep2 on Sept 25, 2020 14:56:06 GMT
Lazybones
I read The Drowned World only with the last 3 years. It is pretty racist. Maybe the characters rather than the author, but there is some fairly casual word dropping.
I understand JGB was uncomfortable with The Drowned World in particular in later years.
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Post by lazybones on Sept 25, 2020 15:19:39 GMT
Lazybones I read The Drowned World only with the last 3 years. It is pretty racist. Maybe the characters rather than the author, but there is some fairly casual word dropping. I understand JGB was uncomfortable with The Drowned World in particular in later years. Yeah ... I mean I did quite like it. In lots of ways it was my favourite of his novels, but ... that aspect of it also sort of makes it the worst. |
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Post by lazybones on Sept 25, 2020 15:22:42 GMT
The archaic sun ...
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Post by tenthenemy on Sept 25, 2020 15:30:33 GMT
Hello, denizens of this freedom-loving country. What's with the racism today? First things first: this afternoon and evening my neeps are at 334. I'm probably the only one who buys every week, but feel free to swing by if you'd like to sell. Very blustery outside. Inside, parcel delivery frustration symptom rages. As you already know, I recently folded like a tent (hen) when I had the opportunity to pre-order some Animal Crossing cushions. What I didn't tell you is that on that occasion I was unwisely browsing the whole range of Nintendo tat before I went through the checkout. So... I also bought a Sobble. And I got a text alert from Royal Mail that it would be delivered this morning. Only it wasn't and I have been waiting around all morning for nothing. From the tracking app it looks as if Sobble has at least arrived in Birmingham this afternoon. So I might be suffering from Pokemon plush deficit, but at least I was able to get my racist kick from the latest Tintin book to come through my letterbox. Sent from the US and with a customs declaration that the parcel contained " Cigars of the Pharaoh". Maybe it took some time to figure out whether or not I needed to pay tobacco products duty. Maybe this is why The Secret of the Unicorn is the last volume missing. Lunch: Spinach and goat cheese tortilla, bean salad. |
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Post by Tuffers on Sept 25, 2020 15:30:34 GMT
The Lord of the Lings
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Post by Chumbles on Sept 25, 2020 15:32:13 GMT
Fuckwit; the stories are full of different races. It's notable that the really evil bastards are human beings. Got that right, didn't he... Putin as Sauron, Trump as Saruman with the massed hordes of Easterlings being the massed Chinese Communists (who are easily the most racist regime on the planet - Tibet, Uighur, Mongolian peoples all being re-educated with their own languages being forbidden, so that they can be compliant subject races) Tolkien strongly resisted reading his books as an allegory for the modern world. Also weren't Welsh, and both Irish and Scottish Gaelic educationally supressed by the British government? As were the various languages and dialects of France, Italy Spain and Germany by their governments. I know 'we' have stopped it now, but it isn't that long ago. I KNOW Tolkien hated LotR and its mythos being regarded as allegory, which was precisely my point. The allegory is my whimsical extrapolation. As for the enforcement of conformity, let's not forget left handers (sinister creatures of the Devil) were also forced to use their other hand. (Trying to masturbate must have got confusing - at Public Schools especially "Shenguin Minor, were you wanking." "No sir" "Yes you were; 2 cold showers, boy" "But Sir, Sheep Major only had to have one!" "One for masturbating and one for using your left hand.") |
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Post by Tuffers on Sept 25, 2020 15:57:37 GMT
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Post by Tuffers on Sept 25, 2020 15:58:25 GMT
Gandalf the Grayling
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Post by RollingEscargot on Sept 25, 2020 16:24:01 GMT
The Silmakrillion
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Post by RollingEscargot on Sept 25, 2020 16:28:13 GMT
The Riders of Roehan
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Post by Felice Landry on Sept 25, 2020 16:36:58 GMT
Saruman the Whiting
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Post by Tuffers on Sept 25, 2020 16:47:18 GMT
Brillbo
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Post by amipal on Sept 25, 2020 17:57:14 GMT
Are we due a "woke" version of LOTR? The people of Middle Earth will rant about Sauron's occupation on the ME version of Twitter, all the while chewing on granola while wanking each other off over Gandalf's beard.
Or something.
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Post by tenthenemy on Sept 25, 2020 18:02:31 GMT
Are we due a "woke" version of LOTR? The people of Middle Earth will rant about Sauron's occupation on the ME version of Twitter, all the while chewing on granola while wanking each other off over Gandalf's beard. Or something. If you thought racist dog-whistle was bad, let me tell you that fellbeast-whistle is downright terrifying. |
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