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Post by Destry on Dec 20, 2017 23:04:41 GMT
It might not have the "cultural baggage" but unless they're living in a bubble they know what the words represent now, or am I misunderstanding you? But in his language there is no other word for "woman". Now that is difficult to believe. |
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 20, 2017 23:05:48 GMT
It might not have the "cultural baggage" but unless they're living in a bubble they know what the words represent now, or am I misunderstanding you? They know what that word means now in a different language. Which is why BigG would not use "wench" when he speaks standard English, as he stated. But in his language there is no other word for "woman". The fact that the more widely spoken language took that word and contorted it into a derogatory term is not the dialect's fault. A dialect is not a different language and "wench" is not a word that is unique to any particular area |
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Post by BigG74 on Dec 20, 2017 23:13:31 GMT
I get that. I'm not standing here with a pitchfork trying to light a torch. I was just curious to where used the word in question. I only speak in dialect with other dialect speakers. It's important to maintain the tradition. Otherwise non-dialect speaker can misinterpret both the meaning and tone, and then completely go off on one. |
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Post by RollingEscargot on Dec 20, 2017 23:16:35 GMT
It might not have the "cultural baggage" but unless they're living in a bubble they know what the words represent now, or am I misunderstanding you? They know what that word means now in a different language. Which is why BigG would not use "wench" when he speaks standard English, as he stated. But in his language there is no other word for "woman". The fact that the more widely spoken language took that word and contorted it into a derogatory term is not the dialect's fault. Yeah, ok, but we all code-switch in a variety of ways with a lot more sophistication than that. Plus it's not a neutral dialect word that's been contorted by hegemonic English - it's a Middle English word derived from Old English 'wenchel', meaning 'A child (of either sex); also, a servant or slave; also, a common woman' (OED). Ie it has, since its earliest attestations, had overtones of infantilisation/servility. |
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 20, 2017 23:23:25 GMT
I get that. I'm not standing here with a pitchfork trying to light a torch. I was just curious to where used the word in question. I only speak in dialect with other dialect speakers. It's important to maintain the tradition. Otherwise non-dialect speaker can misinterpret both the meaning and tone, and then completely go off on one. Are you one of the illuminati? |
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Post by Destry on Dec 20, 2017 23:27:02 GMT
I only speak in dialect with other dialect speakers. It's important to maintain the tradition. Otherwise non-dialect speaker can misinterpret both the meaning and tone, and then completely go off on one. Are you one of the illuminati? Would that be the famous Blackpool Illuminati?  |
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Post by tenthenemy on Dec 20, 2017 23:28:40 GMT
They know what that word means now in a different language. Which is why BigG would not use "wench" when he speaks standard English, as he stated. But in his language there is no other word for "woman". The fact that the more widely spoken language took that word and contorted it into a derogatory term is not the dialect's fault. A dialect is not a different language and "wench" is not a word that is unique to any particular area Where do you draw the line between a dialect and a language? Is Dutch simply a German dialect? It's very close to Low German, which is usually regarded as a dialect. Swedish and Danish are mutually intelligible, are they just different dialects? There are many French regional varieties, but only Occitane is classified as a different language, is that justified? How far removed must a dialect become to qualify as a different language, or is it just the number of speakers that's decisive? "Wench" without negative connotations and as an affectionate term is unique to the Black Country. That's why we are arguing about it. |
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Post by BigG74 on Dec 20, 2017 23:29:12 GMT
It might not have the "cultural baggage" but unless they're living in a bubble they know what the words represent now, or am I misunderstanding you? They know what that word means now in a different language. Which is why BigG would not use "wench" when he speaks standard English, as he stated. But in his language there is no other word for "woman". The fact that the more widely spoken language took that word and contorted it into a derogatory term is not the dialect's fault. TenHen, thanks for being objective, but these people are yampey and reasty. |
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Post by BigG74 on Dec 20, 2017 23:31:07 GMT
They know what that word means now in a different language. Which is why BigG would not use "wench" when he speaks standard English, as he stated. But in his language there is no other word for "woman". The fact that the more widely spoken language took that word and contorted it into a derogatory term is not the dialect's fault. A dialect is not a different language and "wench" is not a word that is unique to any particular area |
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 20, 2017 23:31:29 GMT
What is the dialect is what I'm asking?
Is it black country?
I'm not judging. Just curious.
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 20, 2017 23:40:22 GMT
A dialect is not a different language and "wench" is not a word that is unique to any particular area Where do you draw the line between a dialect and a language? Is Dutch simply a German dialect? It's very close to Low German, which is usually regarded as a dialect. Swedish and Danish are mutually intelligible, are they just different dialects? There are many French regional varieties, but only Occitane is classified as a different language, is that justified? How far removed must a dialect become to qualify as a different language, or is it just the number of speakers that's decisive? "Wench" without negative connotations and as an affectionate term is unique to the Black Country. That's why we are arguing about it. The last line is arguable, we need a few more people from the midlands to confirm it. The rest is interesting and thoughtful and something I can't just dash off a reply to. |
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 20, 2017 23:42:39 GMT
Empty the dishwasher and bed for me.
Last day of work tomorrow for 12 days.
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Post by Destry on Dec 20, 2017 23:46:46 GMT
Empty the dishwasher and bed for me. Okay. What's your address and where's the key? |
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Post by tenthenemy on Dec 20, 2017 23:47:44 GMT
The last line is arguable, we need a few more people from the midlands to confirm it. BigG has already posted a link. I live in Birmingham and have seen articles in Black Country dialect that were published in regional papers and can assure you that this is correct. |
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 21, 2017 0:02:58 GMT
The last line is arguable, we need a few more people from the midlands to confirm it. BigG has already posted a link. I live in Birmingham and have seen articles in Black Country dialect that were published in regional papers and can assure you that this is correct. I can't see the relevance of the link or what papers print, if you can assure me the women of Birmingham are happy then fine |
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 21, 2017 0:05:15 GMT
BigG has already posted a link. I live in Birmingham and have seen articles in Black Country dialect that were published in regional papers and can assure you that this is correct. I can't see the relevance of the link or what papers print, if you can assure me the women of Birmingham are happy then fine As you said earlier, conversations like this are difficult on a forum |
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Post by BigG74 on Dec 21, 2017 0:06:12 GMT
I only speak in dialect with other dialect speakers. It's important to maintain the tradition. Otherwise non-dialect speaker can misinterpret both the meaning and tone, and then completely go off on one. Are you one of the illuminati? Yes, as is everyone here. That is why this is the most affluent place in the country. |
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 21, 2017 0:06:55 GMT
>>Sorry, I have to call you a water waster, again I apologise.
Fair enough. Don't apologise.
I live in the west of Scotland. It rains here. A lot. The chemicals I'm putting into the machine should be more of a worry.
Also if you're worried about water waste the amount lost through broken pipes etc is ridiculously high.
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 21, 2017 0:13:39 GMT
Are you one of the illuminati? Yes, as is everyone here. That is why this is the most affluent place in the country. Don't you mean effluent |
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Post by BigG74 on Dec 21, 2017 0:14:48 GMT
BigG has already posted a link. I live in Birmingham and have seen articles in Black Country dialect that were published in regional papers and can assure you that this is correct. I can't see the relevance of the link or what papers print, if you can assure me the women of Birmingham are happy then fine Okay so where do it start with this? I've no idea what the TBTs, on the east side of the M5, think of this. Here we are okay, I've already explained that my mother, aunts, grandmothers and great grandmothers are dialect speakers. |
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 21, 2017 0:18:22 GMT
I can't see the relevance of the link or what papers print, if you can assure me the women of Birmingham are happy then fine Okay so where do it start with this? I've no idea what the TBTs, on the east side of the M5, think of this. Here we are okay, I've already explained that my mother, aunts, grandmothers and great grandmothers are dialect speakers. I missed that, let's agree to talk about games and other things that matter |
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 21, 2017 0:24:52 GMT
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 21, 2017 0:26:53 GMT
I realised that. I edited the link.
Sorry.
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Post by Felice Landry on Dec 21, 2017 0:29:17 GMT
"so, as long as you don't often run your dishwasher when it's only half full of dirty dishes" there's the rub |
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Post by crankcaller on Dec 21, 2017 0:31:32 GMT
We (family of 3) fill it with the 3 meals and assorted cups etc in a day.
I wouldn't use it if here myself.
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